Aunty Lactivist is all of us so if you can help with ideas, links or personal experience please add your comment.
Dear Aunty LactivistHELP! I’m hoping your cruisade can help me!
My sister is breastfeeding her 4 month old son and is watching her daughter perform in a dance final in a London theatre. They have a policy where you can breastfeed in the building BUT no children under 3 are allowed in the actual show!
We’ve contacted the CAB, Womens Rights and finally The Equality and Human Rights Commision who have advised her to put everything in writing trying to resolve the issue and make them aware she is covered under the breastfeeding law to breastfeed her baby in any public place and not to receive any less favourable service. She’s been advised to attend and if shes then refused entry they have broken the law through in-direct discrimination.
Have any of you any knowledge or experience of anything like this?? The dance show is fast approaching this Saturday (07.05.11)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
E
Sorry but they are completely within their rights to not allow the baby into the theatre – baby wouldn’t be allowed into an 18 film or on a fairground ride with its mother either. They aren’t discriminating against her by not allowing her to breastfeed in a place where they wouldn’t allow bottlefeeding.
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Has she actually spoken to the front of house manager at the theatre? She can call and ask talk to them. If she explains that her daughter is performing but she has a breastfed four month old and see what they suggest as a solution?
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Sorry but I have to agree with Shel on this one. They are well within their rights to disallow babies and this is not a matter of discrimination against breastfeeding any more than it would be if an over 18s only bar were to refuse to let a breastfeeding mother in with her baby.
In all honesty I think it is things like this which actually play a large part in causing so much of the aggravation we breastfeeding mothers face in society; people assume that by wanting the right to feed our babies wherever our babies can go (NOT to be confused with being able to feed our babies absolutely everywhere – would you feed your baby in a nightclub?) that we’re demanding special treatment, which we’re not. But your friend is here.
Of course she should talk to the manager and see if any provision can be made but if the answer is no then it’s a no. If they allow one mother in with her baby then they would have to allow all mothers in with their babies, which would be unfair on the performers and the rest of the audience as even the most placid of babies make noise here and there.
Tell your friend to use her imagination; it can be done. I am EBF my nearly five month old and a couple of weeks ago had to go on a four day course, and my baby was not allowed in with me. (NOT because they discriminate against breastfeeding but because it would be disruptive to everybody else there, as is the case with the theatre). I made it work, my partner kept the baby in the building and I went out every time he needed feeding. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
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Also something I forgot to mention before, considering this is a child’s performance it’s not unfeasible to imagine that there will probably be a few parents in a similar situation. Personally I would be royally peed off if I’d gone to great lengths to arrange for someone to be nearby with my baby, possibly even having to pay a babysitter to do so, after reading ‘no under 3s’ only to find that an exception had been made for somebody else. You have to understand that this will arise and the theatre would no doubt have to deal with complaints. I think it would be a far better idea for her to try and arrange for a friend or family member to be in the building with the baby for the duration of the performance so she can nip out if needs be. It’s only a couple of hours.
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This is a comment from the person who asked the question:
“Thanks for the comments, although I thought not all were supportive!!I was hoping for advice without judgement.
So are the Equality and Human Rights Commission wrong then on their legal advice? A mother wouldn’t feed in an 18 rated cinema or a nightclub as they are both restricted under the law for minors not to attend, the theatre has a ‘rule’ but aren’t we protected by law?”
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I disagree. Equality act 2010, and breastfeeding regs and act going back to the 70s. It’s an indirect discrimination issue according to legislation.
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The point is this they are providing a service and under the equality act of v2010 they cannot stop her from entering the theatre. It is a childrens, non professional performance so other family members should be allowed to attend. This is not what gives breastfeeding a bad name this is the law! Breastfeeding mothers need not be locked away they need to make a stand and be proud to feed anywhere and feel protected to feed anywhere. I wouldnt take my baby to a nightclub or a fair ground as im sure this mother wouldnt. Thats just being silly and taking it out of context. Good luck to her and go with what your baby wants xx
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Is the issue nothing to do with how the baby is fed and just to do with the fact they don’t allow young children in the audience?
If that is the case, do they have to have separate rules for breastfeeding mothers?
The lady who wrote in said the event is in London, unless they live there it could be a long way from home, and a long way from a baby who needs milk. Possibly the baby won’t take expressed milk too, there are all sorts of things we don’t know about.
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Kathleen’s right. The key words are legitimate and proportionate. Not allowing a child in a nightclub is legitimate. The theatre (or any organisation delivering a service through the theatre) cannot discriminate in this instance as it’s not proportionate response. Whilst people may feel the theatre are being reasonable, it really doesn’t matter what your opinions are, the legislation is quite clear, and that’s actually what counts. Not opinion – ill informed or otherwise.
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Thats it Rachel. Surely the law overides the age limit? I dont think there is a law written saying no under 3s in a theatre? That is just a rule or restriction. the lady is being made to feel that she is of less importance than the other memebers of the audience! as breastfeeding mothers we should unite and get behind her! Why shouldnt we be able to go to places like this?
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No, there isn’t. To put it in context, where is the evidence that a child aged 2years and 364 days old is less well behaved than a child aged 3 years and 1 day? And what if I’m breastfeeding a child aged 3 years and a day? It’s nonsensical. The law views this as a gender equality issue (as with pregnancy and maternity) as it only applies to women. That’s what makes a discrimination issue – on two grounds actually
(that are both protected characteristics, gender and age). It’s indirect discrimination as it’s a provision, policy or criteria that disproportionately adversely affects one group over another (women compared to men). The age restriction, I think could now be argued to be directly discriminating. Sad thing is the discrimination has to occur before a case can be brought.
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Evidently a matter of opinion and a lot of valid points have been made from both angles. I just wanted to say to the OP that if I came across judgmental that wasn’t my intention at all; I’m sorry if I came over a little bolshy with my opinion.
My stance hasn’t wavered, and I’m not personally arguing about who has the legal right because it is clear there are conflicting rights here – I would be inclined to agree that the human right of being able to breastfeed anywhere in public might take precedence if it came to court but it is a grey area.
My point of view is based on ethics rather than legality. I personally don’t think it is fair to have one rule for one person and one rule for another. If fifty breastfeeding mothers were to turn up with the same demands then they would have to let everybody in if they were to let one in. There would inevitably be squawking and noise and this is not fair on the children performing. If this is was any old performance I could concede that it may be a petty point as this would probably never happen – but as it is a performance by young children it is not unlikely that there will be a good number of people in the same boat.
She could chance it and attempt to insist entry based on her rights but she may find herself in a situation where they try and forcibly remove her – whether or not they would be right to do so is a grey area and if it were to go to court she may well win. But does she want that, or does she just want to see her child perform? If so I cannot see why she can’t take somebody with her to keep the baby in the building – which you’ve already noted is otherwise breastfeeding friendly (as it should be) – and have her phone on vibrate so she can nip out and feed the baby if needs be. That is what I would do anyway, because personally I think it’s likely that they don’t discriminate against breastfeeding in the slightest but rather have a set rule in place to save the potential difficulties associated with many babies and very young children spoiling performances with noise, as they realistically cannot meet every child beforehand and make assessments on an individual basis. And personally I am only concerned with true, direct discimination rather than ‘indirect’ discrimination based on a technicality. But that’s just me and where I’m coming from, we’re all entitled to different opinions. If she wants to turn it into a political protest at the risk of having to miss the performance then good luck to her – and I do mean that!
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I’m not coming from a personal position, but from one based on what her legal rights are. It just so happens that morally I agree with the legislation. It isn’t a grey area or one for debate (the legislation is only really interpreted by courts and precedence). Unless a service provider wins a case such as this to discriminate, as it stands a tribunal would find in favour of the breastfeeding mother. I don’t see the fulfillment of ones legal rights as solely a political issue, though the personal is of course political.
Both direct and indirect discrimination exist in the eyes of the law and are equally valid. A court would not call indirect discrimination a technicality, hence why it’s unlawful – there are no degrees of unlawful activity, it either is or isn’t unlawful. I would suggest that E seeks advice and support from organisations that can provide informed and factual advice, rather than personal opinion, which whilst that’s great for people to have, does not bear relation to equality legislation.
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I think some of these comments are not very supportive at all…..the under 3 thing is to avoid disturbance during performance, a preference set by the theatre, andnot a lawful age rating on a film, which nobody in the right mind would ask about taking a baby into….a similar situation arisen at a school local to me, where under 3′s were ‘banned’ from watching nativity play….it socially discounting the fact that more than a handful of parents will be unable to attend under that ‘rule’. How many of us have children under and over 3? I suggest a sling and a big coat if all else fails, but I think speaking th fornt of house manager and explaining the situation would and should suffice.
It is definately in direct discrimantion not allowing you to BF in the theatre xx
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